Rich LeFevre wins Las Vegas qualifier

Results from an anonymous comment & CE News
1. Rich LeFevre 31 or 32 (10 minute contest instead of 12)
2. Ron Koch 21
3. Andrew McKirdy 14
? El Toro

update Hall Hunt made quite accurate predictions for the qualifier

update #2 The Las Vegas Review has a captioned picture of Ron Koch and El Toro (from the Hangman)

update #3 BeautifulBrian.com has a contest report with some pictures

Comments (86)

86 Comments »

  1. NAAWP said

    May 8, 2008 @ 5:45 pm

    It will be 10 minutes long and so will all qualifying rounds.

    http://www.ifoce.com/news.php?action=detail&sn=591

  2. Anonymous said

    May 8, 2008 @ 8:55 pm

    First place- Rich LeFevre 32 (10 minute contest instead of 12)
    Second place- Ron Koch 21

  3. Joey said

    May 8, 2008 @ 9:28 pm

    great job Rich. changing the length is lame.

  4. mike landrich said (Registered July 4, 2007)

    May 8, 2008 @ 9:36 pm

    Good job Rich.

    Ron
    Nice return to IFOCE competition!!

  5. Ron Koch said

    May 8, 2008 @ 9:51 pm

    I cant describe the feelings I had being announced by Rich Shea again. I thank the IFOCE for giving me the opportunity to compete again..WHAT A RUSH” Had this been a 12 min, contest Rich would have had 40 plus…….

  6. gurgiblogger said

    May 8, 2008 @ 10:08 pm

    great job all

  7. ED "COOKIE" JARVIS said

    May 8, 2008 @ 10:20 pm

    Great job rich WISH I WAS IN LAS VEGAS TO SEE NEW YORK NEW YORK FOR MY 42ND BIRTHDAY MAY 9, 2008 WHAT’S UP WITH 10 MIN.CONTEST.

  8. Anonymous said

    May 8, 2008 @ 10:22 pm

    Ron: Anyone else close to the 20 hdb mark? Any other ranked eaters compete?

  9. Kevin Ross said

    May 8, 2008 @ 10:35 pm

    Congrats on the first win of the season Rich!!

    Good job to you too Ron. Are you going to do Tempe next?

  10. NAAWP said

    May 8, 2008 @ 10:41 pm

    Rich LeFevre 31

    Ron Koch 21

    Andrew McKirdy 14

    http://www.competitiveeatingnews.com/newsarchive.php?action=detail&sn=103

  11. NAAWP said

    May 8, 2008 @ 11:02 pm

    Rich LeFevre eat 31 not 32.

  12. Erik the Red said (Registered January 9, 2006)

    May 8, 2008 @ 11:05 pm

    Finally got a win in Vegas Rich. Awesome job. And welcome back Ron it is good to see you put up a solid number right away.

    10 minutes though? I agree Joey, that sucks!

  13. Anonymous said

    May 8, 2008 @ 11:13 pm

    It was Rich with 32, Ron with 21 but the next place finished with 14,also El Toro was there.

  14. NAAWP said (Registered August 8, 2007)

    May 8, 2008 @ 11:22 pm

    I have provided 3 links today and O.J. Rifkin has not given me credit for any of them.

    I gave the links to Gal Sone’s blog entry, rule change from 12 to 10 minutes, and the results on competitiveeatingnews.com.but wen I post under Anonymous or some other name he always gives me credit.

    What is the deal here?????????

  15. Anonymous said

    May 8, 2008 @ 11:44 pm

    It should only be 10 minutes. 12 minutes sucked.

  16. Anonymous said

    May 8, 2008 @ 11:53 pm

    Joey, let’s talk.

    It should be 12. We shouldn’t eat if it’s 10.

  17. Philly Guy said

    May 9, 2008 @ 12:20 am

    Good job Rich! I hope the finals are 12 min. The 2 minute difference going into the finals can make for some interesting water cooler talk.

  18. Kevin "Krazy Kevin" Lipsitz said

    May 9, 2008 @ 12:30 am

    Congratulations Rich and Ron, great numbers.

    Even more impressive when you factor in that it was only 10 minutes and the impossible Vegas Heat.

    Krazy Kev

  19. ojrifkin said (Registered July 27, 2005)

    May 9, 2008 @ 12:42 am

    All the links you provided were from websites I check quite frequently and there were additional links in the posts as well.

  20. Bukowski said

    May 9, 2008 @ 5:16 am

    WAAAAHHH!
    I didn’t get credit for a link
    WAAAAHHH!

  21. Rhonda Evans said

    May 9, 2008 @ 7:41 am

    Congratulations Rich! Ron, 21 is an impressive total for 10 minutes. Welcome back! Happy Birthday to Ed “Cookie” Jarvis!

  22. Bison said

    May 9, 2008 @ 8:31 am

    Nice job Rich .It’s good to win early in the season.Nice comeback Ron.If you send me a EMail address I have a cool picture of you from the Barrick Burger contest .

  23. the vacuum said

    May 9, 2008 @ 9:00 am

    Shawn kirby did 13 and Cameron Mckirdy was there also

  24. Carey said

    May 9, 2008 @ 10:43 am

    So Hall Hunt changed the contest length so that his predictions would be more correct? I can’t believe anyone is going to let him get away with this.

  25. Steakbellie said (Registered August 11, 2006)

    May 9, 2008 @ 11:00 am

    did El Toro compete?

  26. the vacuum said

    May 9, 2008 @ 12:38 pm

    el toro competed, dont know his results, 10-12, and he had a hat on with horns

  27. NAAWP said

    May 9, 2008 @ 1:31 pm

    Bukowski, Kiss my @ss.

  28. NAAWP said

    May 9, 2008 @ 1:41 pm

    I don’t blame OJ, if everyone start going to my youtube Account and saw all my video’s about Bill Clinton being involved in Drugs and MURDER everyone would be mad at Mr.Rifkin so I don’t blame him at all.

  29. Bukowski said

    May 9, 2008 @ 2:04 pm

    WAAAAHHH!
    Bill Clinton
    WAAAAHHH!

  30. The_Hangman said (Registered August 30, 2006)

    May 9, 2008 @ 2:41 pm

    Link to a picture on the Las Vegas morning newpaper of Jeremiah Jimenez and Ron Koch

    http://www.lvrj.com/news/18796254.html Link with story

    http://media.lvrj.com/images/2675779.jpg Link for just picture

  31. SyKoBOZO said (Registered September 17, 2007)

    May 9, 2008 @ 2:53 pm

    nice job Rich,now you can relax for a little while..and congrats to everyone who entered,cause hotdogs can be a #$&*% to eat fast,Have A Nice Day :)

  32. NAAWP said

    May 9, 2008 @ 3:10 pm

    WAAAAHHH!
    Bukowski is a SON OF A BITCH
    WAAAAHHH!

  33. Bukowski said

    May 9, 2008 @ 3:21 pm

    enjoy the next 8 years

  34. Wild Thing said

    May 9, 2008 @ 9:18 pm

    Imitation is the best form of flattery.

    Koch painting his face like Super Paul and El Toro wearing a ridiculous hat like Hangman’s chicken hat he wore in Jacksonville in 2007.

    Ironically Koch and El Toro both ate about as many HDB’s as Super Paul and Hangman consume.

  35. Super Paul said

    May 9, 2008 @ 9:49 pm

    Ron, nice comeback and great outfit…definitely top 20 material for the Best Dressed Eaters list!!
    Rich, you the man!

  36. Anonymous said

    May 10, 2008 @ 1:11 pm

    Wildthing ,are you challanging Koch and Toro to a tag team eating event?

  37. NAAWP said

    May 10, 2008 @ 1:17 pm

    I had make such of fool of myself the past few this will be my last post under NAAWP.

    NAAWP January 21, 2007 – May 10, 2008

  38. RON KOCH said

    May 10, 2008 @ 1:23 pm

    I have to correct my mistake.I have to thank George Shea for allowing me to compete again after being ill for 2 years.George is just great.He put me at ease, and made it a good comeback for me..

  39. The Consumption Kid said

    May 10, 2008 @ 10:22 pm

    I just have to say that El Toro got worked over by Andrew McKirdy. “Dirty Drew” dominated the man with the little horns, and it was only his second event ever! He should be called “Drew McKirdy el Matador.” Nice work.

    Also, did anyone see Cameron McKirdy puke on two people?! I hope video of that hits youtube soon.

  40. Anonymous said

    May 10, 2008 @ 10:48 pm

    El Toros horns are not the only thing thats little.

  41. Anonymous said

    May 11, 2008 @ 1:13 am

    Erik even if the contest was 20 minutes you aint eatin more than you do now so give it a rest. You can’t even finish ahead of either of the two women. Even in your very best food peppers one whipped your ass. I think youve done all the talking you can stand.

    Luther

  42. El Toro said

    May 11, 2008 @ 2:50 am

    Yeah I got beat by 1.5 hot dogs and buns. As for you consumption bitch next time you address me do it under your real name or in person so I could fuck you up real proper like for talking shit. Your a little bitch ass pussy a fuckin coward talking shit behind a fake name!! And trust me I hope your as big as Andre the giant! More room for me to have fun whipping your ass. Fuck you and your mother!

  43. SuperPaul said

    May 11, 2008 @ 7:53 am

    I wish I was as good an eater as Ron Koch – 21 in 10 minutes would win some qualifiers this year.

  44. Oh boy said

    May 11, 2008 @ 9:05 am

    Mr Consumption you should not have pissed off El toro the bull that way. He means every word he says . And dont piss OJ off either because he does know your IP . Not good Not good at all

  45. Pat From Moonachie said

    May 11, 2008 @ 10:52 am

    Happy Fuck You and your Mother’s Day! ;)

  46. SyKoBOZO said (Registered September 17, 2007)

    May 11, 2008 @ 11:59 am

    EL Toro, that was great,haha…im still laughing – and Luther you cant out eat anyone,your just mad cause 1) none of the women want you, 2) you get turned down by gay men – hell your such a negative bastard your right hand probaly says no too…and by the way you could’nt beat Erik in an Eating Contest even if he had duct tape over his mouth…and as far as Sonya or Juliet, they both are kick ass eaters and im sure if you actually compeated against either one of them ,they would send you home with little pee pee between your legs. :)

  47. Cameron "The Consumption Kid" McKirdy said

    May 11, 2008 @ 2:02 pm

    All I am saying is that Andrew and I don’t pretend to be great eaters. We are just starting out, and we aren’t very good…El Toro just doesn’t belong in a video game. That’s the part that is bull.

  48. anonymous said

    May 11, 2008 @ 5:28 pm

    Anonymous said,
    May 8, 2008 @ 11:44 pm

    It should only be 10 minutes. 12 minutes sucked.

    YOU REMAIN ANONYMOUS FOR A COMMENT SUCH AS THIS? I CAN UNDERSTAND POSTING ANONYMOUS IF YOU ARE INSULTING THE SHIT OUT OF SOMEONE BUT THIS IS PREPOSTEROUS. YOU ARE GIVING ANONYMOUS POSTERS A BAD NAME

  49. WingKong said (Registered December 19, 2006)

    May 11, 2008 @ 5:40 pm

    El Toro why do you let Anonymous people get you so riled up…You’re getting riled up over someone who can’t even put there name to a comment. You ate your best, nice job.

  50. anonymous said

    May 11, 2008 @ 6:00 pm

    El Toro joins the list of competitive eaters that let anonymous comments get the best of them. Here are some examples
    1. Don Lerman
    2. Bubba Yarborough
    3. Mike Landrich
    4. Syko bozo
    If i forgot any past names please feel free to add them on. Anyone that posts under an anonymous name should be ashamed of themselves

  51. anonymous2 said

    May 11, 2008 @ 6:04 pm

    I dare the person that left the may 8th 11:44pm comment “it should only be 10 min 12 min sucks” to attach a name to that comment. If not then you are pussy that doesnt have the balls to post under your real name

  52. beautifulbrian said

    May 11, 2008 @ 6:22 pm

    Kong i think i can understand Toro’s frustration. He takes the sport to heart and is trying to become a top 10 eater or an eater that wants to gain the respect of other top notch eaters. Do you know how many times in past years i have been slammed for my eating disabilities by assholes like Joe Menchetti. It is quite frustrating to say the least. I really dont let it bother me because im used to it . The classier guys in MLE dont resort to lowball tactics such as that. They realize that when i show up to compete i dont have a prayer in hell of beating them or finishing in the money but they still give me the benefit of the doubt with kind words and inspiration . Toro comes to the table ready to eat realizing that he is up against Koch and Lefevre but still gives it his best shot. It is very hard to come to grips with hitting the wall at 12 or 13 dogs and buns and not being able to progress no matter how hard you train. It certainly destroys the ego to a large extent.

  53. mike landrich said (Registered July 4, 2007)

    May 11, 2008 @ 6:54 pm

    Anon at 6:00 pm

    I don’t respond in anger to anonymous posts any longer. I just say, if you want to get my respect, say something to my face, like a real man. Hiding behind an anonymous post just shows you as a coward or a moron who gets off by stirring the shit.

    As for El Toro, I’ve met him in person. He is a stand-up guy and doesn’t deserve these attacks from bottom feeders who lack the intestinal fortitude to identify themselves.

  54. SyKoBOZO said (Registered September 17, 2007)

    May 11, 2008 @ 10:48 pm

    yeah i know EL Toro too,hes a great guy and shouldnt have to put up with bullshit attacks – as far as me i have stated many times i love to talk shit,that is why i talk shit back to Anonymous assholes,I find it very amusing…as far as Luther is concerned – Luther is my bitch! – anyone else is okay in my book :)

  55. stomach ache said

    May 14, 2008 @ 8:07 pm

    how many hot dogs can everybody eat in 10 minutes without eating the bun? just ask Rich, he dropped most of his buns in the water only to drink it in the last minute.If my team would have done this in the contest before my team would have won.

  56. Anonymous said

    May 14, 2008 @ 9:34 pm

    Joe Menchetti is twice the eater Lefever is.

  57. Anonymous said

    May 14, 2008 @ 9:35 pm

    Lefever couldnt eat 30 hot dogs if his life depended on it.

  58. Ron Koch said

    May 14, 2008 @ 10:29 pm

    El Toro is a great guy,and not deserve the criticism he has gotten from the anonymous writers.Anybody that can stand in front of people and cameras up your nose deserves a high five.

  59. SyKoBOZO said (Registered September 17, 2007)

    May 15, 2008 @ 12:23 am

    Anonymous 9:34 and 9:35,what are you talking about,Rich has eaten over 30 at every Nathans qualifer that i can remember (i think he usually averages around 33)????? Have A Nice Day :)

  60. mike landrich said (Registered July 4, 2007)

    May 15, 2008 @ 5:53 am

    Rich ate 33 last year in Vegas, but using anonymous’ new math, 33 is less than 30. New math sucks.

  61. Badlands Booker said

    May 15, 2008 @ 7:53 am

    El Toro is the Man! ‘Nuff Said!!

  62. WHAT WAS THAT EL TORO LINE ? said

    May 15, 2008 @ 8:45 am

    He may not be a great eater, but the man can rap, and he’s a blast! Horn head rules!

  63. SyKoBOZO said (Registered September 17, 2007)

    May 15, 2008 @ 9:14 am

    he prefers the ladies call him “Horny Head” – :)

  64. Rhonda Evans said

    May 15, 2008 @ 10:26 am

    El Toro is a staunch proponent of and great contributer to CE. There’s only one El Toro.

  65. the vacuum said

    May 15, 2008 @ 11:12 am

    On may 8th this Headliner went up on eatfeats, on may 15th and 65 comments later we are still on it !!!! HUNGRY AND FOCUSED !!!!

  66. Cameron McKirdy said

    May 15, 2008 @ 12:24 pm

    Yeah, stand up, great guys like El Tardo say things like F you and your mother. Stand up, great guys like El Tardo threaten people on myspace. El Tardo has zero class and even less eating ability. Maybe he just can’t eat beef (hotdogs) because he is already full of bull(shit). The McKirdy Bros. don’t have a problem with the bully, and no we don’t want to be gored by him. I’m taken.

    If it existed, El Tardo would be the best Minor League Eater around.

    Good luck thinking of something clever to say. F you and your mother was genius!

  67. Robert Logan said

    May 15, 2008 @ 1:37 pm

    Rich is one of the greatest competitive eaters of all time and continues to improve each year (I would assume without the benefit of much, if any, training). To be able to accomplish that at his age is nothing short of remarkable. Also, if memory serves me correctly, I can’t recall seeing where Menchetti ever beat Rich in a contest (or even came close for that matter).

  68. SyKoBOZO said (Registered September 17, 2007)

    May 15, 2008 @ 2:49 pm

    Cameron i give you props for using your real tag and not hiding behind the anonymous tag – now that being said arent you like 14 or something like that? El Tardo was the best you could come up with,that sounds like a junior high school rank,maybe you should sit in front of the tv and play with your wii while sipping on your capri sun and come up with some better material. if you want i will sell you some great insults if you think your allowance can afford it. Hey if your mom is hot tell her i said hi, – and by the way i dont know about Andrew but Cameron “The Consumption Kid” sounds like your a swallower not a spitter – OKAY now that i have had my fun,i will be serious only for a second. Cameron everything i just said was just to mess with your head,i find it amusing,but if i recall you started talking shit to EL Toro first,so he has every right to talk shit back to you,as a new eater i wouldnt be taking shit about who can out eat who or who has the bigger pee pee, you should have been learning from the other eaters and asking questions,because now all you have done is give yourself a bad name and made yourself look foolish and immature,you should have just kept quite and you and your brother would have probaly gotten props from some of the experienced eaters,for your brother to eat 14 is damn good,cause hotdogs are not a friendly food to eat,not every eater has a good day Joey and Pat lose (on occasion,usually to eachother,but those guys are like best friends and they talk smack to eachother,but in a different way) for someone who is just starting out,you went about it the wrong way.Most eaters are like a big family we all help eachother at events even when we have never met before – and if a legend like Badlands Booker says something like “El Toro is the Man!” you cant get much bigger props than that. Good luck and Have A Nice Day :)

  69. Gentleman Joe said

    May 15, 2008 @ 3:22 pm

    I was not the anony poster re: LeFevre & I.

    I believe it is true, that I have never beaten him, or his lovely wife for that matter.

    Unfortunately, I haven’t had the opportunity, due to the politics of eating to face him, his wife, or a great many of the eaters who have joined this activity much over the last 5 years.

    If the opportunity existed, i’m sure I would win or place well in shorter sprint type contests & wouldn’t be an embarrassment in longer events.

    For those of you who think you can take me in a sprint, the Chef One Dumpling Eating Contest will occur again at Flushing Meadows Corona Park as part of the Hong Kong Dragon Boat Festival on 8/3.

    Maybe YOU, can keep me from adding $1,000. to my current lead in CE 08′ cash winnings.

  70. Rhonda Evans said

    May 15, 2008 @ 3:32 pm

    I’ve always noticed the strong positive correlation between distance and the size that a person perceives his balls to be (at least for men). The greater the separation between the coward and the person he directs verbal attacks toward, the larger his gonads seem to be.

    Take the online environment away–remove the distance–and put the coward and his object of abuse together and then watch the grapefruits turn into peas.

  71. A. Nonymous said

    May 15, 2008 @ 3:59 pm

    No Wildcard for Nathan’s (from MLE)
    The 2008 Nathan’s Famous Fourth of July International Hot Dog Eating Contest cirucuit is comprised of 18 qualifying events — four more than the 2007 season. As a result, no wildcard seats will be awarded this season and the total number of eaters on stage on July 4 will be approximately 20 as in years past. Major League Eating is pleased that this structure will enable four additional eaters from the qualifying circuit to compete.

  72. Cameron McKirdy said

    May 15, 2008 @ 5:42 pm

    You know what…props to all the eaters out there! You are doing your thing, and I respect that. If you made the MLE game, props. That’s is all I’m going to say on that matter. Oh, and most of the competitive eaters I have ran into have been amazing. I will never forget the kind words from George Shea, Ryan Nerz, Kate, Pat, Rich, Joey, and Badlands. The CE family is a strong one, and I respect each individual. End of story. Good luck to everyone in their upcoming events.

  73. Anonymous said

    May 15, 2008 @ 6:57 pm

    Just to let all you eaters who think La Fevre is that good listen up,I was talking to a member of the ESPN team who saw La Fevre dropping 3/4 of his buns in water during the contest and thinking he was getting away with this continued until being told he cant do this, and then drank the buns.DO YOU THINK THIS IS FARE TO ALL THAT ENTERED? Im sure the eltoro could eat 20 or 30 without the bun..being caught and getting away with it because of his name.Eltoro should have won by disqualification.

  74. RussK said (Registered February 3, 2007)

    May 15, 2008 @ 8:39 pm

    With no wild cards, I guess you can let it fly. If you have a reversal you have a reversal. Why average 224 to 25 and can’t win a wild card.

  75. nathanbiller said (Registered January 29, 2007)

    May 15, 2008 @ 10:13 pm

    I guess there’s no reason to go to any qualifier you don’t think you can win now…

  76. erbivore said

    May 15, 2008 @ 10:40 pm

    Sweet, that means I can save money and not travel to ANY.

  77. Philly Guy said

    May 15, 2008 @ 11:16 pm

    Its costing me less than 10 bucks to go to all 3 of mine. Thank you Septa/PATCO!!!

  78. Anonymous said

    May 15, 2008 @ 11:47 pm

    what espn crew are you talking about? at a qualifier?

  79. SyKoBOZO said (Registered September 17, 2007)

    May 16, 2008 @ 12:21 am

    haha,Erbivore that was funny – okay at Gyro’s im going to see how slow i can eat instead of fast (theres not much difference,haha). They should let us as eaters vote for the wild card,that would be cool – right now it would have to go to Vandam,he put up a very impressive total. Cameron that was a much better post,yeah Ryan is cool,he cracks me up and George did my first event and treated me like i had been around for years,and Erb and Sonya answered all of my silly new guy questions untill other people got there and they answered all the rest of my questions too – before i even did the event (Kolaches) i reached out to Humble Bob and Joey and they both gave me advice,which was really cool of them to do that. And this weekend in my hometown im looking foward to getting my ass kicked by Joey,Pat,Bob,The Mad Greek,Nasty Nate and whoever else eats more than me and it will be a blast,i dont care,i will make sure i stick out in the crowd for sure (no pee pee or nose jokes US MALE,haha) its all about having a good time and meeting new people and hanging out with other eaters. – hey does anybody know the most events someone not in the top 20 has entered in one year? cause my boy Nasty Nate Biller has got to be close to somekind of travel record this year….there needs to be a contest for who can eat the most fast food in one week,i think i can place in that event,if anyone see’s my diet please send it back to me Have A Nice Day :)

  80. Anonymous said

    May 16, 2008 @ 12:54 am

    It was the espn team from nyny hotel that was on before the finals

  81. Philly Guy said

    May 16, 2008 @ 1:14 am

    I’d say Wild Bill, but I’m at 4 already with a head start on him.

  82. the vacuum said

    May 16, 2008 @ 2:49 am

    Well lets see 2007 I did 8 events and I traveled round trip a total of 19,532 miles and I didnt win a dime, although I found a nickel stuck in some gum at a dunkin doughnuts !!! why ?? FOR LOVE OF ALL YOU TABLE ENDERS, and you guys and gals on top, I have met alot of great people since I started this hobby,, BUT, I put out the challenge, who had more miles “unsponsored” than me ?????? And you anon people dont know what you are talking about,, Rich had a pile of “debris” on his plate and george said he had to get rid of it, the bun pile was not in the water it was on his plate,, and if rich was dq’d El toro still would have only been in 4th

  83. the vacuum said

    May 16, 2008 @ 2:52 am

    I think after this discussion we need to have one about getting rid of the annonymous comments, log in or dont leave a comment

  84. carey said

    May 16, 2008 @ 8:18 am

    We had that ‘anonymous’ discussion before, Shawn. I think the general consensus is that it makes things more interesting. I myself voted against it.

    About the wild card, I think that with the four added contests, whoever would have won the wild card is probably going to win a contest, they just have to plan smarter. Unfortunately they threw this curve ball after all the registrations were closed.

    I have to agree that there isn’t any reason for someone to blow up and start throwing around ‘F-yous’ and ‘your mothers’. Besides, the comment that was made wasn’t all that bad, most people on here have had worse talk about them without loosing their cool.

  85. Rhonda Evans said

    May 16, 2008 @ 9:15 am

    About the qualifiers, I think it would be most helpful for eaters to know/find out who is going where, so they don’t have to waste their time and money showing up at an event where they have little or no chance of winning. This is especially important in the absence of wild cards.

  86. casinodad said (Registered November 22, 2008)

    November 22, 2008 @ 8:20 am

    great job Rich. , general consensus makes it smart thing. tnx, by http://www.rockyslots.com

RSS feed for comments on this post

Leave a Comment

Log in | Register | Comments by users who have not logged in will be held for approval